Episode 1 – CSUN 2026

Episode Summary

In this inaugural episode of The Accessibility Breakdown, Mark and Justin share their experiences from CSUN 2026. They discuss three main topics:

1. Accessibility and Security: Justin highlights Radostina (Ina) Tsvetkova’s session on mapping security principles (Confidentiality, Integrity, Availability) to accessibility principles (Perceivable, Operable, Understandable, Robust), creating a framework for these two fields to better collaborate.
2. Global Accessibility Awareness Day (GAAD): The hosts discuss the upcoming 15th anniversary of GAD on May 21st, featuring live events in London, New York City, and Bengaluru, India. They also note leadership changes within the GAAD Foundation.
3. The Value of Hallway Conversations: Mark and Justin emphasize how some of the most valuable CSUN experiences happen outside formal sessions – in hallways, bars, and impromptu meetings. They share a story about connecting a PhD student researching accessible flowcharts with accessibility experts by chance.

Learn why CSUN serves as an energizing community experience that reminds accessibility professionals they’re not alone in their work.

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Full Transcript

Announcer: The Accessibility Breakdown by Inclusion Impact Accessibility.

Mark: Hey, welcome to the Accessibility Breakdown by Inclusion Impact Accessibility. I’m Mark.

Justin: I’m Justin.

Mark: And this is our first… Accessibility Breakdown Podcast. So before we get into it, we want to kind of let you know what we have in mind here. The idea is, our goal is to do one of these every week. And what we want to do is kind of go through the different topics of the week, the different things that surface from an accessibility standpoint. That could be a blog post. Could be…

Justin: It could be an article in the Accessibility Slackers channel. It could be.

Mark: Bit of news, you know, like that, like buying gold or safe at the shop posts. It could really be anything that catches our attention that week. This first one, However, we’re going to do a little bit differently than they’ll probably go in the future because we just came back from CSUN 2026. So we want to chat about that a little bit. We have Justin and I were both there and I don’t know, you know, it was a really good CSUN and I think there’s a lot to talk about.

Justin: There was so much to talk.

Mark: About. So much to talk about, but we’ve sort of boiled it down into the three things. That’s going to be our stick here is that it’s going to come down to three things. So we’re not all over the place. And it was a very different CSUN. I’ll start by saying it was a very different CSUN for me because typically I’m running a booth, building a presentation room, Running a booth, running a presentation room, running a bunch of people, coordinating a bunch of people to make sure that everything’s staffed, and it’s really six pretty intense days. But the cool thing about this one, this was the first one that I’ve been to as inclusion impact accessibility on my own. We didn’t have all that, of course. And I spent a lot more time in sessions in the hallway, which we’re going to talk about, right? The hallway is going to be our biggest thing. Topic and in the lobby and by the restaurant and the bar and I really learned, Justin. But that’s where a lot of the magic happens. And that’s where you. Yeah. A lot of good conversations are running to people. So let’s go over the three things that we’re going to talk about. The first thing is you have a session you want to talk about. You want to tell us a little bit about that?

Justin: Yeah, I want to talk about Ina’s session on Friday afternoon on accessibility and security. Great session that I got a chance to attend.

Mark: Okay, accessibility and security session. And then we were going to talk about two sessions, but we actually decided that we’re going to talk about one session and replace the second session with a meetup. Right, is that the right term for what we’re talking about? Justin meet up?

Justin: You mean like the hallways?

Mark: No, I’m thinking about the GAD. Pardon me, though.

Justin: No, yeah, the GAD event. I don’t know.

Mark: Yep. So we’re going to talk about that because GAAD’s in a very cool place right now and a very pivotal place in multiple ways. And that really was, one of the more interesting things i think and then we’re going to talk about the hallways specifically we’re going to talk about trash cans in the hallways and i’m going to leave that there so that you could be a little bit teased but We’ve got some cool stories and information regarding what goes on outside of those sessions and sort of specifically planned things. So with that, Let’s start with your session, accessibility. Why did you pick that?

Justin: Yeah, so Friday afternoon when A lot of people have already started to head to the airport. I got to attend How Accessibility is Security session at 2.20. This was hosted by Ina. Radostina Tsvetkova? Bad with names. She goes by Ina.

Mark: I’m glad I wouldn’t even come that close.

Justin: Well, especially the pressure of doing it live. But she works for the Norwegian Dictatorate of Labor and Welfare. And she was giving this talk. It was originally supposed to be her and Juanita Flesses who were going to be giving this talk. But Juanita had something come up and had to run. But the talk itself was really fascinating because what they did was – In security circles, they’re… There’s different languages and things that are used to describe how your different approaches to security. And they targeted one specific one called the CIA, not the Central Intelligence Agency. But CIA is an acronym for confidentiality, integrity, and availability. And when you’re looking at security, these are three areas that you should be comparing your – your processes to.

Mark: Okay, so let’s pause there. Confidentiality. Integrity, And Availability.

Justin: Integrity. Value? Availability.

Mark: C-O-A-L-E-B-I-L-E-Y. Value starts with V for anybody who doesn’t know, so it wouldn’t be value availability. Okay.

Justin: And then they mapped these. The whole point of the talk was to then kind of talk, give everyone kind of a primer on what these values mean. But then they started mapping them to the accessibility principles from the WCAG, the POUR principles. So perceivable, operable, understandable, and robust.

Mark: If I’m hearing you, and I think this is where you’re going, Justin. You’ve got with C-I-A Right. And poor, you really have two different completely different concepts. One says, Hey, watch out. How much data and information You let go and the other one says, make sure everybody can perceive your data and information. So there. So on the surface, they’re a little conflicting.

Justin: Well, yes and no. I wouldn’t say they’re necessarily conflicting. But there are two different ways of approaching Something that is very important to a lot of different people. Security, in this day and age, we have to be secure. We have to build things that are secure, keep people’s information confidential. We want to limit the access to information, that sort of way. But the same way, we have to make it so that anyone who is going to be accessing security, bank information, well at this day and age, your data can be used for anything. But you’ve got to make sure that it’s accessible to everyone, that you’re not blocked from being able to access your account by a CAPTCHA or overly stringent security requirements.

Mark: It just seems like if you put both of those things in a sandbox together, they wouldn’t quite know how to play. Together right away anyways.

Justin: And that’s, I think that’s what a lot of people think too.

Mark: Yeah. Yeah. And I think CAPTCHA is the easy example, right? It’s the example that my mom could understand because CAPTCHA is, we know in accessibility, immediately caused an issue because CAPTCHA is designed to say, hey, let’s make sure this person is a human and not a robot. So we’re going to put these restrictions in place that in air quotes, only a human could get past well if the human could you know has all five senses working well at least in the early days of captcha that was fine so right there you had this conflict between security that CAPTCHA was trying to create Very basic, I know, for this discussion. And accessibility, because certain people who, you know, if you’re using a screen reader and you didn’t have sight, you couldn’t. You couldn’t find all the tiles that were a bicycle or whatever the case was.

Justin: So that’s my favorite one. Yeah.

Mark: Was my favorite or stopped And then it would have like, there would be like the littlest corner of the stoplight that would be on a tile. And you’re like, do I include that tile or not? Is it actually in there? So I don’t know. I don’t know how easy it was for people who could see the captcha.

Justin: Yeah, definitely. I definitely felt captcha’s unintentionally before. But yeah, what was, but what, “. In order to accomplish confidentiality or two, then you have to, here’s how you would make it perceivable. Here’s how you make it operable. Here’s how you make it understandable. Here’s how you make it robust. And then for each of the others, you know, they kind of went through that. So basically what they kind of started to establish was sort of like a Rosetta Stone for these, for the accessibility industry and the security industry to begin having a conversation about how they can kind of come together and start talking about the inclusion of one within the other.

Mark: It’s kind of like the rules of engagement for both of them being in the sandbox. Yeah. And I like the Rosetta Stone analogy too, because it sort of says like, how do these two seemingly different languages actually fit in the same? Language.

Justin: Yeah, they can’t, they can talk, they can coexist and they do have some overlap. So, Yeah, it was a fascinating… Topic and there were some good questions and stuff.

Mark: But it just sort of lay this problem out and kind of suggest this these rules of engagement or did it actually Did they actually talk about how to then solve it?

Justin: No, there was no necessary solution. Ana, when she was giving her talk, definitely was kind of like, This is our framework for beginning these conversations. She’s starting to try to speak at other security type conferences. I did go up to her afterwards and was like, “This seems like a great OWASP project of trying to OWASP? Gosh. It’s Monday morning and it’s an acronym. Hold on.

Mark: If you can’t, you can go on your tongue and expect me not to ask you what they mean.

Justin: Right. The Open Web Application Security Project. Okay. And I wanted to make sure I got it right. I remember most of it, but I couldn’t remember the what the O was. But what OWASP has been around for Many years. It’s a nonprofit foundation. But what it is it’s kind of similar to the way the W3C works. OWASP is a nonprofit. They are out there trying to evangelize good security practices and… And they have a lot of projects and things that they do. They do custom trainings and events and all sorts of, really interesting things to try to get software development community thinking more about application security.

Mark: The idea is… Here’s an issue we see that we think needs some attention. Security, need to probably figure out how to play a little nicer together. And here’s a framework. That you can start to use to think about it. Juanita and – Ina. – Ina’s, idea here is let’s get this out there so that people can start Really fuel the discussions and the thoughts and stuff around it. Perfect. And, I noticed there’s not really a blog or anything out there on it, but we probably should figure out maybe how people who are listening to us and weren’t at CSUN can dig more into it if they want to be part of the mindshare that looks into this. Yeah. We’ll follow up with those two and see if we can figure out where they’re continuing to put information. The next thing that I wanted to talk about was the GAD meetup event, whatever we’re calling it. This was really interesting because GAD, which is Global Accessibility Awareness Day, And we can give a little bit of the background of Global Accessibility Awareness Day, for those of you who may not know it, but it’s kind of an interesting story how this even became a thing. Our foundation around it started off as a blog post, like almost just a, hey, we should have this because developers don’t even know this was 15 years ago. Developers don’t even know accessibility is a thing half the time. And we should just this thought of like, it would be good to increase awareness and maybe we should have a global accessibility awareness day around it. And that blog went, those blogs by Joe Devon and it went, viral. And out of it just was born Global Accessibility Awareness Day and then I want to say it was five years into that. You had a foundation wrapped around it. And the interesting thing about This is that we’re on coming up on the 15th anniversary of that blog post. And So they had a room in the, and I had never been down in this part of the Marriott, but it was kind of, we’re part of the Marriott. There’s like the secret, secret, hidden tunnels down there. And, Set of stairs, I walked by it. A zillion times right off of the lobby that I never walked down. And it wasn’t a very big room. And I don’t think that they. They’re very, you know, the Gattas and Joe and the people that have involved in it, they’re very humble people. They do what they do because they believe in it. I think that every time they turn, they’re surprised at the attention that they get and the global accessibility awareness gets. In that fashion, Just about everybody in the conference was like, yeah, we’re going to the global accessibility awareness meeting. And we were packed in this little room, but it was really cool, particularly because when you’re packed in a room, it sort of forces these connections and conversations a t-shirt out of it they spoke a little bit and you know the really the cool things for me were that it’s the 15th anniversary they’re going to make a big deal out of it and they’re going to have a they’re going to celebrate on GAD Day, which is May 21st. Yeah, they’re going to celebrate by having live events in three. Parts of the world. London, New York City. And Where’s the third one?

Justin: Bengaluru, India?

Mark: I knew where it was. I just wanted you to say it. Kevin and Chris… – Gowlin, G-A-U-L-I-N? – Yep, gallon.

Justin: Chris Gaulin.

Mark: They’re going to be in Bengaluru. Jennison. Which I think a lot of people know too. And he’s the other. Joe’s sort of cohort in the whole Global Accessibility Awareness Day. A new Kind of person in town when it comes to God that you and I had the privilege of spending quite a bit of time with really good person. And I think they’re lucky to have him around is Ben. Say his last name. I’ll go with you. All these See it?

Justin: Ogilvy?

Mark: Ogilvy. I think that’s right. That sounds right. And there, so, They’re going to be in London. Which that’s the one I want to make it to and then Anna. I can’t do this last name. Think ugly. I think the And I can do this one.

Justin: Ink.

Mark: I’m going to do this one. Mindy Morgan. Thank you, Mindy. Thank you. Thank you for your last name and first name. Actually, it’s really good because the more diversity and difficult these names are to pronounce, it means the more people globally and the more of a diverse crew we have influencing it. So it’s 100% my problem. Nobody else’s. But they’re going to be in New York City. And these are going to be big live events. So cool. So cool. So a few other things. What else is… So Ben is a new. A new player and he’s was it what his title.

Justin: So he… Yeah. So with the foundation, Joe is coming off as chair of the foundation board. And then because it’s a foundation, it’s like everybody kind of moves up a rung. So Jenison is going to be the new chair. Ben Ogilvie is going to be the first vice chair. Chris Gallen, second vice chair. And then Anna Thielke is going to be the acting secretary treasurer. And then Joe Devon now becomes past chair. My wife does a lot of work in nonprofit spaces. And so I’m like, I know exactly how that all works.

Mark: My wife does too. Maybe it just says something about how well you pay attention to what your wife does and how well I pay attention.

Justin: I think there’s two other. Yeah. And then we mentioned Mindy Morgan from who’s going to be with the NYC thing. They’re going to be, Mindy Morgan is going to move into an emeritus. Never remember where to pronounce put the stress on the wrong syllable she’s going to be the emeritus board member and then elizabeth barron is going to be an at-large board member so helping out there which is pretty cool Yeah.

Mark: Nice. So that’s not very far away because May 2nd, as we said, is Global Accessibility Awareness Day. So start paying attention now, start making plans now. There’s probably going to be a ton of virtual stuff as well. So if you can’t make it to one of these places, you can participate virtually and the Cool thing for me, too, is just… All of the people. All of the companies, the institutions that care about accessibility, this is an exciting time for them. So everybody usually does things around it. So Keep an eye on LinkedIn and those kind of things and just see what your favorite thought leaders and so on and so forth, what they’re doing, what they’re attending, what they’re saying about it. And there should be some really cool stuff coming up. Anything else we need to cover about GAD before we move on?

Justin: No. I will say that it was… The room that they had us in at the Marriott for the GAD mixer meetup, it was small. It was like a house party. I mean, it just…

Mark: It shoved in the corner somewhere.

Justin: Yeah. Yeah, it was, but it was good. And so many, it was. I mean, it was one of those places where you kind of go in and you’re like, hey, I haven’t seen you. And so it was like night. It was like Tuesday. And so, yeah, it was a great place to kind of go and just kind of like run into all sorts of people.

Mark: Yeah, and it did have that vibe of like we snuck away somewhere and it was the happening place to be. Yeah. They definitely had that vibe because it was just away from the rest of the hubbub enough to… And it was kind of like you felt like you’re part of an exclusive club until you looked around and you’re like, it’s not that exclusive. Everybody’s Which is the way it should be.

Justin: Here. Everybody’s here.

Mark: Alright, so let’s talk about hallways and trash cans.

Justin: Always in trash.

Mark: Cans. Trash cans. So our premise here, this is something that Justin and I was talking about, is that You know, One of the things that you hear I’ll call them seasoned CSUN goers, right? People, there’s people that have been I think I’m a big deal, right? Because I’ve been going… I’ve been going for 13 years. And over those 13 years, I think I’ve made it to 11 CSUNs. So I’m like, you know, walking around like, hey, look at me, veteran, right? And you’re similar, right? How many would you say you’ve been the 10th, right?

Justin: To? I think this one was my 10th.

Mark: And then, you know, you look around and there’s all these people with a little first time on their badge and stuff like that. And they’re so excited. It’s, I love to talk to people who are there for the first time because they’re just somebody put a LinkedIn post about it too, just that first time experience and not just realizing what a cool thing and community event that they were walking into and it’s just pool on multiple levels.

Justin: Yeah. I mean, when you think what’s, when you think about it, so many people working in accessibility, they’re the, they’re like the lone person maybe in their organization or their shop that’s, you know, focused on accessibility and they’re like, I’m going to go to do the CSUN thing. And yeah, there’s a conference and I know it’s pretty big, but then you get there and you see how many other people are in the same spot as you and how big the community is and how welcoming it is. Yeah.

Mark: It’s the conversations that you can have all of a sudden that you can’t have. Yeah. It really is cool. But anyways, so the point is that a lot of times you hear particularly from the veterans like, ” the sessions aren’t deep enough, the surface level.” And I don’t disagree with that. But I think when you have all these newer folks rolling in, you can only go so deep. Now, maybe you could have a session or two. And I think there probably is a session or two that digs a little deeper. Bye. That exists at CSUN. That really deep level where even somebody with your tenure and some of these other people’s tenure can come out of CSUN with growth, it happens in what we’ve deemed to be the hallways, right? And when we say hallway, we mean the bar, the loud. The elevator. Done. You know, courtyard.

Justin: The spot right outside of karaoke. Yeah. I.

Mark: Mean… Back from puestos like you name it wherever all these places where you know and it’s walking down the hallway and people grab you and stop you and say your name. And I can remember when I was first going to CSUN 13 years ago, I was there with Kathy Wolbin with interactive accessibility, which is where I got my start in accessibility. And she couldn’t take three steps down that hallway without somebody coming. Yelling her name and, ” it’s great to see you,” and all that. And I used to look at that and be like, “That must be so cool.” Like to have everybody know you and to kind of have that status and people want to say hi to you and, you know, fast forward 13 years and you and I try to walk down the hallway and now I can say I know what that’s like, you know, and it’s as cool as I thought it was going to be.

Justin: And it’s, Totally. And it’s funny because you’re always on the way to like something else and someone will stop you and you’re like, I really wanted to go to that session, but. This in this moment, this feels a lot more important.

Mark: This is a whole other podcast, right? The lost conversation with the CSUN. They’re like, we’ll have to catch up. And then… You don’t catch up every time you say that, you know, you get back. You’re on the plane and you’re like, I never, in fact, I got a text that I was like, yeah, we just missed each other or we saw each other for a moment.

Justin: Never reconnected with him.

Mark: Dave Sloan and I were like, we wanted to steal a few moments like, all right, let’s go get a drink in the bar. And we walked in the bar and somebody said my name and simultaneously that somebody said his name. And then that we stood like back to back, shoulder to shoulder, talk to these other people. I get a tap on the shoulder. David’s like, I got to go. Great talk. Walked away and we never ever we never said more than like two sentences to each other the whole time but you know what it was great talking to those people as well and he and i eventually caught up But anyways, trash can story. Yeah. This story, I think, really illustrates the power of the CSUN system. Always. Right. And So I had gone over to the Hilton. Which is across the courtyard. If you haven’t been to CSUN, there’s the Marriott and the Hilton. They’re kind of across. The carports and a courtyard from each other. Because the Hilton has this nice, like food court. And. I’d had a couple of sort of like lunches that were too formal already because they were with somebody. I’m like, I’m on my own. I just want to go grab a slice of pizza. You get a nice big. You know, slice of pizza, you get a hamburger, you get a bunch of stuff over there, tacos, you know? So I popped over there and I grabbed myself a slice of pizza and, As I do, I started chatting with the people in line with me who had CSUN badges on as well. And a couple of great people that worked for an education company in accessibility. And I sat down with them. And so this is the first moment, right? Just lunch, couches, Hilton, and have a great conversation about how they’re integrating accessibility into their processes and what their different roles are and the challenges that they’re having. And, you know, I tried to give my two cents as an accessibility consultant, you know, et cetera. And then finally, we kind of finish eating. We’re wrapping things up. We’re ready to head back to other sessions. So we get up to throw. Containers away and we get up to the trash can and they have this nice big trash can with a nice Wine. Trash can, but they’ve got this lit on it It’s like a funnel down to a hole about the size of a small dish, right? Too small for our containers, you know, the thing that my slice of pizza came in and whatever. I think they actually got a whole pizza that they split maybe even in a couple of salads. And we’re like, who designed this? Like there’s not a single thing that this food court is outputting that needs to be thrown away. Other than maybe a drink. That can fit in this trash can. So about the time we’re sitting there looking at this trash can, like, you know, scratching our heads, like, what are we going to do? This woman, young woman comes up and just incredible energy out of the gate. She looks at it and has the same thought we do. And she’s like, this is nuts. And just reaches down and takes the lid off the trash can, right? Problem solver, no time wasted. And we all throw our stuff away. So And immediately she sees our badges and she turns to us and she goes, can I ask you guys a question? And we’re like, well, sure. She goes, how would you make a flow chart accessible? Any other time. That would be a nutty thing to ask somebody, right? But within proximity to CSUN, particularly people that have their little badges on.

Justin: Yeah.

Mark: Okay, perfectly normal. So we all kind of chimed in a little bit to try to answer, but the two people I was talking to, they had to move on because they were headed towards the session. So I, I hung by the trash can as you do for a minute with her and I was like, well, you know, this is what I think. And quickly I start to realize that This woman is about a thousand times smarter than me. And anything I can think of, regarding flow charts, she thought of three years ago and is way past it. And she tells me through this that she’s a PhD student and this is her. This is what she’s doing her doctorate on so i’m like all right hang on i’m not your person You’re way out of my league here. I’m not your person. You got a second? She’s like, yeah. So I grabbed the phone. I make a phone call. Make a phone call to It was…

Justin: Me, Justin. Justin? – Yeah, the phone. – And lunch.

Mark: Can you talk about how to make flowcharts accessible. And you were like, yep. I can. In fact, I’m here with Adrian Roselli and somebody else. And you were sitting over at the restaurant at the Marriott under the TV. So I brought our new friend over there, introduced him to the three of you. I couldn’t really stick around. But this incredibly energetic, incredibly bright, enthusiastic PhD student. Unknowingly probably landed on the three best people In the world. I mean, you could, I think you could have traded you guys out with a few other people out there for sure. Right. But. I don’t think you could have raised the level of accessibility knowledge a whole lot in the group of the three of you. About 45 minutes, maybe. You guys in every which way on the accessibility of graphs, the accessibility of flowcharts, And.

Justin: Product what we talked to her about product placement, like, you know, IP, but, you know, getting making sure she has all the information around her intellectual property. I mean, yeah, I mean, We’ve really… Pride to give respect. Like just she was just peppering us with questions and we tried to respond. I think we gave her responses for just about everything. And we got a demo of her tool that she’s built. And yeah, it was one of those types of. Kind of those chance run-ins where you get a chance to like kind of meet up with someone and you’re like, “Whoa, you’re just the person that I needed to talk to at that moment in time.”.

Mark: And if you think about that, there’s not even a way that you could have really Probably got to where all of you got to with a session. You certainly could have said, you know, she could come back into a session on the accessibility of flow charts or whatever, but it would be the same. So the point being, there’s just incredible value. And this was just a real underscoring of how incredible that value and we could have picked from a bunch of stories. But I think this one, because it started by a trash can, all good things start by a trash can. Yeah.

Justin: That’s right.

Mark: No, and because I think she was particularly an impressive person. And I think we all left with the impression because she wants to be – In government making you know in an accessibility. Capacity in government, making sure that policy and all sorts of stuff. I mean, I don’t even know if I can explain it well enough. And the thought I had was, well, if anybody can do it, it’s this woman, she’s got the intelligence, she’s got the drive, she’s got the personality. I mean, that was the cool thing about it is it wasn’t like she was just. Enthusiastic and easy to talk to and having a good time with it all and all that. Definitely has the personality to make those connections that I think are necessary from that standpoint. And so one day you and I. Maybe when we’re retired from accessibility and we’re drinking our tea and with a walker right next to us. Yeah, quotes.

Justin: Air quotes.

Mark: Well, this person’s going to be on TV. On the news or on something or, you know, That’s my feeling. Anyways. Really cool and I think you know you can’t you just cannot discount the value of being in that incredible think tank with all those incredible people I always think in my 13 years I don’t have a whole lot to learn and I think when I come back from CSUN Every year I learn so much. That it puts me back in my place and I leave with that perspective of like as much as I’ve been around as much as I’ve accumulated over the years. There’s so much more. Yeah. So much. You know.

Justin: And it’s such a I always feel like it. There’s with. Working day to day in accessibility and like, Sometimes you have to fight with devs. Sometimes you have to fight with project managers. Sometimes you have to, you know, try to get funding for whatever it is that you’re trying to do. You spend… A lot of time, a lot of effort hearing no or not right now or having it pushed to the back. And CSUN can become that shot in the arm that you need, that kind of re-energizes you and says no. I’m on the right career path. This is the right way I want to go. People Yeah.

Mark: That are gonna help pull this along with me.

Justin: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, here’s you find your people and You find a good community and then you read it and for the most part most people come back year after year And so you see this the same person that you had lunch with the year before you can have lunch with again and you know commiserate over either how great or how poorly the last year went and you know prop each other up and reconnect and.

Mark: I introduced you to Sam Donnelly, hopefully. Yeah. Who He and, accessibility guy from London grant. I don’t think a pull grants last name out of my. Off the top of my head. They created something called Labrador, which is a. Manual only. Auditing. Platform, right? They wanted kind of a quiet platform that didn’t insist on coupling itself with automation and that enabled organization, particularly for those folks who are auditing and putting something in a spreadsheet. So it’s sort of It’s, quiet and organized is probably the way that i would describe it but anyways he was telling me like this is he uses this is his vacation he’s like i just look at this like vacation and i’m like I bet you a lot of accessibility people kind of put this on par with The vacations they have, you know, and it was a perfect way to think about it. And he’s like, yeah, the places vacation funds go is to make sure he makes it to, you See son. And he’s, I think one of those people that is looking for the conversation at the bar. That’s the He’s wired into the… Skateboard community and he was telling me stories about meeting those people in the bar and. It’s That’s it, man.

Justin: Wait, the blind skateboard community? Was that the bar? Yeah. I miss that.

Mark: There’s a whole community of people who are blind that.

Justin: Well, I know that, but I didn’t realize that they were, A, attending CSUN or B, at the bar. I wish I had, that would have been a cool group to get to.

Mark: Know. He’s on he texted me and said i’m with i can’t remember who it was one of the blind skateboarders like do you want to meet him i’m like yeah and then whatever happened that never happened but i don’t know that the every blind skateboarder that has ever existed shows up to see some but some of them do Yeah. Skateboarder decenters too. There’s a sticker skateboarders or see centers too. So anyways. We did it.

Justin: You did.

Mark: It. Topics from CSUN. We hope you all enjoyed it. And next week, we’ll be back with the three things that we think that we feel like talking about from the week. I won’t say they’re the hot things. You may disagree with us. We may disagree with each other, but they’ll be the things that you and I want to talk about. And we’ll have a good time with it.

Justin: Yeah.

Mark: Tell them anything. Any last minute words? Before I sign off.

Justin: No, nope. It’s a really good CSUN. Now it’s… Kind of back to work mode.

Mark: All right, well listened. We’ll talk to you next week. Until then, please keep it accessible.

Announcer: Thank you for listening to the Accessibility Breakdown by Inclusion Impact Accessibility.