Accessibility audits are still too often buried in spreadsheets, cognitive overload, and WCAG Audit tools that make simple testing harder than it needs to be. Sam Donnelly reveals how Labrador is rethinking manual accessibility auditing with a guided, human-friendly platform built to reduce friction, surface the right WCAG criteria, and help teams move from testing to remediation faster. You’ll discover:
- Why Labrador starts with functionality-based questions instead of forcing auditors to review every WCAG criterion
- How the platform reduces cognitive load with a cleaner, more guided workflow
- Why issue templates, status tracking, and retest versions improve developer handoffs
- How AI remediation recommendations can help teams resolve issues faster
- What two-way Jira integration adds to accessibility workflows
Sam also shares how Labrador was shaped by his own experience with cognitive load, disability, and the frustration of spreadsheet-based auditing. The episode is especially useful for accessibility professionals, UX teams, QA leads, and developers who want a faster, clearer, and more effective approach to WCAG audits.
Transcript
Mark Miller (00:01)
Hey everyone, thanks for joining us. today we’re gonna do an unboxing of sorts. We have Sam Donnelly here from Labrador. Labrador does a few things, but their big flagship product is a
tool platform that you can use for manual accessibility auditing and they’ve sort of reimagined it and and have some really interesting kind of philosophies that that were in play when they built it. So we’ve been we’ve been talking to Sam for a while and really wanted to get on with him and have him show us this and talk through the platform, why they built it, how it works, and we’re glad to have all of you here with us. We also have Justin Stockton just
Justin and I are from Inclusion Impact Accessibility. Justin is the smart one that knows tech stuff. So he’s yes, that’s you, Justin. so he’s gonna help through this. I’ll chime in here and there with nonsensical things, hopefully that add value to the conversation. but Sam, thanks thanks for joining us. We really appreciate it. We’ve been following the Labrador product and talking to you following this manual accessibility platform and
talking to you I think since about when you guys started to launch it and it’s been super
exciting A to C because you guys had a bit of a different approach to this to to tackling manual accessibility audits. And then it’s evolved quite a bit since that the early early days. So it’s been a whole lot of fun to kind of be alongside you a little bit on that that journey. we saw each other at C Sun. you and I were talking well before then and I’m excited to be at this point with you. So do me a favor and just
Tell the audience a little bit about yourself and Labrador and we’ll jump off of that and do do to take a look at it.
Sam Donnelly (01:59)
Yeah, so I’m a C or I IAP certified ac accessibility specialist. I hold a C Pack. my background is sort of in social impact and like design and using no code tools to build things. I pr I sort of got into tech because I I built I built a
web based non profit that distributed no no cost fentanyl test strips across the country. N that was like but I built the website for that. just built it in w WordPress but
highly customized and that just really got me into tech and then eventually I found accessibility and and I was like yeah this is it this is exactly
Mark Miller (02:47)
Mm-hmm.
Sam Donnelly (02:47)
what I should be doing. I’m disabled. I’ve got a number of neurological complications that you know get in the w get in the way of my work and using the web to a degree. So when I found out about digital accessibility when I was studying UX design I was like this is this is incredible. I had no I I had no idea this field exists exist
existed at the time. and so I switched from UX design to you know the accessi accessibility track. And I’ve been doing that for about three or four years now. and yeah I guess that’s that’s sort of a the the sort of rundown of how I how I ended up here doing what I’m doing.
Mark Miller (03:32)
So talk to me a a little bit about where the where Labrador comes in, where like why why do as an accessibility professional all of a sudden did you do you feel the need to build a platform?
Sam Donnelly (03:45)
Well what happened was I had been using like s trying different tools for manual accessibility auditing and every option I found was just not not great. I think it was just poor for, you know, cognitive issues, you know, that’s a thing that I deal with is cognitive issues and so
The solutions that I was finding were subpar. I don’t like working with spreadsheets at all. I hate navigating through a spreadsheet. I don’t think I don’t think it’s an efficient way to do accessibility testing at all. And so so I was w I found one product that was working pretty well for me. and but one of its features broke and it was just th they weren’t s there was no support support with this product. And so I was just like, you know what? I’m gonna try to build this myself. And
So I just s s sort of bit by bit started creating my own manual accessibility testing platform. and it took me probably I I don’t know, a couple weeks or a month to have something that was like semi functional. And and me and my co founder Grant were just like, All right, I think I think this is this is what we should be doing. We should just work on this and, you know, mi make it great and it’s been, you know
It’s been about a year now that we’ve been working on it and and yeah it’s come a long way. You know, initially it was just
Mark Miller (05:17)
Yeah.
Sam Donnelly (05:18)
kind of like each criterion for each page just had one entry field. That’s like all it was. It was like one entry field where you could just write all your notes and and it was just you know, it’s just not what what was needed for for, you know, this kind of work and so, you know, we added more complex forms.
and, you know, ways to track severity and status such as, you know, you know, f fixed for retesting or to do or whatever. And
Mark Miller (05:49)
Right.
Sam Donnelly (05:50)
so we we really enriched this the data that the users were inputting. so and it makes it so the product’s very flexible and g gives a lot of information and presents really good result or reports for like that
Mark Miller (06:07)
Nice.
Sam Donnelly (06:07)
are actually useful and nice to look at, and work well.
Mark Miller (06:12)
Well, I’m excited to see it and to have you and Justin dig into it because Justin has worked on similar platforms with similar functionality in the past. So I think this will be a really good kind of walk through it and discussion around what you guys are doing and what and w why you’re doing it and why you’re doing it differently than everyone else. So if you want, you wanna dive into showing us the the product?
Sam Donnelly (06:41)
Yeah, sure thing.
Mark Miller (06:42)
Yeah.
Sam Donnelly (06:43)
let me see. Let me share my screen.
Mark Miller (06:48)
So Justin, while while Sam’s pulling that up, like what are s like if you th listening to Sam talk about it, like what are the what are some of the like gotchas like right away that it makes you think of, like if you were gonna come in and start to build?
Justin Stockton (07:00)
that one
well, that one field to write all your notes in was Yeah, that’s
Mark Miller (07:04)
Yeah, I I saw you I saw your face on that.
Justin Stockton (07:08)
that’s definitely one of those like things.
Mark Miller (07:10)
Yeah.
Justin Stockton (07:11)
before we dive in, I am kind of curious, why Labrador?
Mark Miller (07:16)
that’s a good question.
Sam Donnelly (07:17)
In terms of the name.
Justin Stockton (07:19)
Yeah.
Sam Donnelly (07:20)
yeah, so I I’ve it’s actually a name I’ve been holding on to for a little bit. I was gonna build another accessibility product in like years a coup a couple of years back and I call I called that Labrador, but it never ended it ended up like being a thing. And and so when I started working on this, it was like, hey, Labrador is perfect for this as well. And the whole idea is this sort of you know.
Labrador’s guided accessibility testing and Labradors are fantastic guide dogs. So we just wanted to have sort of like a friendly personality and like a, you know, we can help you help you get to where you want to go. that’s sort of the the whole idea of of Labrador and why we picked picked that or used that name.
Justin Stockton (08:07)
Yeah, it sets a it’s nice,
Mark Miller (08:07)
Same
Justin Stockton (08:08)
it sets a tone for your for your tool.
Mark Miller (08:10)
Uh-huh.
Justin Stockton (08:10)
Like it’s friendly, it’s inviting. People love dogs. Most people love dogs.
Mark Miller (08:15)
Well,
Sam and his
Sam Donnelly (08:16)
Yeah.
Mark Miller (08:16)
wife are absolute animal lovers and dog lovers. We had dinner one time at a local restaurant here, the sea dog, and the sea dog has dogs pictures all over it. So and I think you have one near you too, Sam. and there’s a dog. Yeah, he
Sam Donnelly (08:31)
yeah I’ve got I’ve got one right here.
Mark Miller (08:35)
keeps him he loves him so much he just keeps them like in his pocket. Like he can just pull one out. Like need a dog? Any ready every Whoa, you you didn’t bring your dog with you here, I gotta spare.
Justin Stockton (08:44)
Ha ha.
Sam Donnelly (08:45)
I bring
this dog everywhere. It’s the best. Nobody nobody really
Mark Miller (08:47)
That’s awesome.
Sam Donnelly (08:48)
minds. I’ll bring her to the diner and everything.
Justin Stockton (08:53)
Nice.
Mark Miller (08:54)
Well,
that’s awesome. all right. Well let’s dig into it. Now
Justin Stockton (08:58)
Yeah.
Mark Miller (08:58)
that we now that we have established what a animal slash dog lover you are, Sam, let’s take a look at Labrador. Yeah. I think so. Well, and
Sam Donnelly (09:03)
Yeah yeah. Yeah, very important. It’s it’s clear from my LinkedIn page, we got the the picture of me with the dog. But
Mark Miller (09:10)
it it’s Seesaw, Justin, too. Sorry to interrupt Sam, but it’s Seesaw, he went and took pictures of all the Labradors at Seesaw.
W like
Justin Stockton (09:17)
yeah.
Mark Miller (09:17)
like mostly guide dogs and did a little I think it that ended up being a little bit of a social media. So it’s really cool and it’s really cool the way that they’ve woven that into the the the whole concept of the product. So all
Justin Stockton (09:28)
Yeah, I love it.
Mark Miller (09:29)
right. See? In case you’re wondering if I’m paying attention to you, Sam, now you know I am.
Sam Donnelly (09:33)
Yeah I’m I I noticed. but
Mark Miller (09:36)
Yeah.
Sam Donnelly (09:36)
but yeah, so this is just our home page and we’ll just go ahead and jump into the projects page and let’s go to the University of Montauk. so this is this is a demo project, so if i anyone signs up for Labrador, this shows up
it’s injected into your project. So when you first start using Labrador, you have a project to sort of tinker around with and just get an idea of what what a full audit looks like or mostly filled out audit. And what I did was I intentionally left two pages untested here. so if you want, you can finish out the audit.
But yeah, there are a lot of different ways to just sort of discover the product’s features through this project. But I’m gonna
Mark Miller (10:35)
Mm-hmm.
Sam Donnelly (10:36)
also use this project for demonstration purposes here. so
Basically what you got here is you got a dashboard showing you it’s sorta sort of the health of the audit. We’ve got a ninety six percent conformance rate, tells you failures, issues, all of that stuff. And and if you want to, you can also fill in project information. This shows up in your audit report. so and that could be sort of nice to you know, whatever whatever stakeholder you’re dealing with, it’s easy to
give them all the information in the audit and let them know how how you did things, that sort of thing. but yeah, so essentially you you know click into a page and as long as you upload a URL, you’ll have the URL at the top here here to refer to and go back to things. so
We’ve got a number of tools that sort of make things you know, clear things out for you in the beginning. so you know, on a lot on a lot of pages, when you’re testing, there there are just a ton of success criteria that just aren’t gonna apply to most pages that you audit. And so we have this NA batch tool. This is sort of how I start. I’ll go, I’ll take a look at the page.
So in this case we’ll this so this is the page that I am auditing now. And let’s say I looked at the whole thing thing, I got sort of an idea of what’s going on for it. It’s a fairly simple page. And so go into the NA batch tool and so everything’s checked automatically. And you just sort of go through and you say if any of these are not true, things like this page is no live audio or video, let’s say you you saw
you know, there’s l there is like live audio or video, you want to uncheck that. but in this case for this page it was all these were correct. So you select mark twenty two and a and then automatically you’ve got forty percent progress after doing that. And another thing you can do is you can run an axe scan for each page if you want to. And so
It’s very simple, it just quickly navigates to the page. This requires a Chrome extension. and but that you’ll you’ll see that within the app. And then so here we’ve got it detected a couple of issues. element must meet minimum color contrast ratio thresholds, language of the page is missing, buttons must have discernible text, and then it also shows best practices, and those are automatically unchecked.
But yeah, so you have the op you have the ability here to like actually look and s see what Axe is saying before before you say, okay, I I want to put this into my project. And it we found is much better at the page level than at the project level. Because when you’re at the project level and you do it, you have this huge list
Mark Miller (13:49)
Right.
Sam Donnelly (13:50)
and it’s just not it’s not easy to manage. so so yeah, we have a setup so you so you have sort of like a hybrid manual.
an a automatic
Mark Miller (13:59)
Yeah.
Sam Donnelly (14:00)
approach. and but you also have the ch choice to not use these f functions at all. but like that was my issue with like if you look look at other tools that are doing stim s you know, s similar work to to what we’re doing, they they just kind of force the automation on you sometimes, which
Mark Miller (14:17)
Mm-hmm.
Sam Donnelly (14:18)
I found
Justin Stockton (14:18)
Yeah.
Sam Donnelly (14:19)
really, you know, I I I find that unpleasant.
Mark Miller (14:21)
You didn’t like that?
Sam Donnelly (14:22)
And so we have it as very optional. And so Yeah.
Mark Miller (14:25)
Can can I jump in real quick, Sam? And
and this is kind of a question for you too, Justin. Like one of the things that just struck me right before you got into this was that list of questions you had, which if I’ve perceived it in my quick glance, they were very kind of like plain language questions, right?
Justin Stockton (14:43)
Yeah.
Mark Miller (14:43)
And so so two things I really liked about that whole list. One is that everything was checked.
It wasn’t like, hey, go through and check all these things off. It was we’re we’re gonna actually start with everything checked off because we feel like the less load on average is probably gonna be for you to uncheck a few of these things. Yeah, I saw a video. Yeah, I saw it had, you know, flashing content, whatever it is. And it it’s interesting, and I want to hear your take on this, Justin, because I think that one of the time-consuming aspects of an audit is actually looking at all of the
you know, Wikig’s success criteria and being like, well, the this doesn’t apply to this page because it doesn’t have video. This doesn’t apply. And that is if you think about that in its pure form, it’s a huge
lift because there are a lot of success criteria. So just quickly boiling it down to these are the things that are important on this page, I think is a a super valuable aspect of any platform like this. This approach seems to me to be a pretty good one. And I and Justin, I know you’ve seen this issue tackled a whole lot in the past.
Justin Stockton (15:52)
Yeah.
Mark Miller (15:53)
So I’d love to hear your thoughts on it.
Justin Stockton (15:55)
Yeah, it’s nice th what I liked about that, I was gonna bring this up, was the it’s not necessarily plain language is the way I would describe it, but it’s it’s f focused on the functionality within the web page. Does it have a video? Does it have form fields? Like it’s very approachable for really anyone. It gets away from
Mark Miller (16:12)
Approachable. It’s a better better phrase, yeah.
Justin Stockton (16:15)
the Wic Hag success criteria and says, Hey, does it have these things? If it doesn’t have these types of things, then we’re gonna mark all of these success criteria. We’re gonna we’re
We’re gonna mark them as not applicable. So that makes this very approachable so that really anyone who’s coming in to perform an audit can check the can knows which boxes to check and which ones not to check.
Mark Miller (16:37)
And and I would imagine, Sam, from your standpoint, you talk about, you know, cognitive disabilities. I have dyslexia myself, so I always appreciate it when people are thinking about us with brains that are that maybe operate a little differently. this to me seems like it would really be very respectful to cognitive load and to and very perceivable for somebody who
You know, may not do well in a bunch of you know, a big pile of detail. Is that part of what drove the decision around how this operates?
Sam Donnelly (17:11)
Yeah, yeah. It’s a cognitive load has kind of been the main consideration or one of the main primary
Mark Miller (17:18)
Mm-hmm.
Sam Donnelly (17:19)
considerations with creating this product. I wanted to make this easier for everyone, but I’m assuming that, you know, a lot of people with cogni other people with cognitive issues are gonna find this to be easier than other approaches. Like you know,
Mark Miller (17:36)
Yeah.
Sam Donnelly (17:37)
there are just certain things like I you know
Yeah, when you’re when you’re auditing in a spreadsheet, you’re usually not like checking off each criteria and I’ll I’ll be f I’ll forget certain things, you know, like I’ll forget to to
Mark Miller (17:50)
Mm-hmm.
Sam Donnelly (17:51)
test for reflow. you know, but when I was auditing spreadsheets before, or I’ll forget like, you know
to check, you know, if things are good at two two hundred percent zoom. All these things I would are tricky to to remember. So yeah, it was definitely we were thinking about cognitive load and that was the primary thing. And my co founder is ADHD as well. I’m ADHD and so w we I think collectively, you know, we’re we’re just trying to make something that
Mark Miller (18:20)
Mm-hmm.
Sam Donnelly (18:21)
that
makes things easier for people like us who might might have a harder time navigating things. yeah, that’s definitely is a big part of it.
Mark Miller (18:31)
That’s well,
that’s fantastic. And I’ll tell just to just for people who are listening, if if you’re kind of like, what you know, you kinda get cognitive load or you’re really wondering like why it’s so important to folks like I’m I’m dyslexia dyslexic in ADD as well. And you know, it is sort of like gas in the tank, right?
and a lot of people think like, well, you lose up you use up your cognitive load, you use up the gas that’s in the tank, and then now you’re kind of like done.
Which to me that’s an aspect of it. But also it means you don’t have what you need left over to perform the real meat of whatever it is you’re trying to do. Like like you, Sam, you’re an you know, you have your s you have your CPAC, you’re accessibility professional. You’re when your brain is running really, really well, you apply all that expertise to something like an audit really, really well. But if something
And I’m speaking for myself using you as an example, so correct me if it says doesn’t apply to you. But if something sort of uses up a lot, too much gas, even to just get to that point, now you’re just not at your best. I always think of it like for those of you out there, you know, like at the end of the day, you’re probably not quite as sharp as you are, you know, or you might need a break earlier than you do at the beginning of the day. So that’s the experience for me, right? For me, I’m like, don’t if you don’t have to use up my brain power.
Let me save it for the important task. Don’t take it away because your navigation’s funky or you’re making me think too much about something menial that I don’t really shouldn’t have to think about. So that’s what I appreciate about it. And hopefully that kind of that that kind of frames this a little bit. For those of you out there who haven’t really thought a lot about cognitive load, that’s in at least for me, that’s how I think about it.
Sam Donnelly (20:22)
Yeah, and it’s nice too because when you optimize for cognitive load, you end up mi making a better experience for everybody. Yeah.
Mark Miller (20:29)
For everyone. For everyone.
Yeah. Nobody looks at it and goes like, Wow, wow, I wished I had to look through all the success criteria, right? Everybody goes like this is easier. I can get I can move on. That’s a that’s a really good point. And that’s and that’s a good illustration of the overall point of accessibility tends to be better for everyone.
Sam Donnelly (20:45)
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Mark Miller (20:46)
Yeah.
Justin Stockton (20:47)
It’s funny you stopped
on y one four one use of color. Like when you mentioned reflow is one of the ones that you kind of forget about. This is one of mine. I it I I just breeze right by it and I’m like, I gotta go back and check that. Yeah, yeah. I’m
Mark Miller (21:01)
Y color alone is an indicator. Yeah.
Sam Donnelly (21:01)
Yeah.
Justin Stockton (21:04)
very good at spotting in other people’s work. Like if I if I’m doing something, I can spot it a mile away. But if I’m
Mark Miller (21:06)
Yeah I see that right away.
Sam Donnelly (21:07)
Yeah.
Justin Stockton (21:11)
the one doing the audit or looking at my own code, I skip it every single time.
Sam Donnelly (21:17)
Yeah.
Mark Miller (21:17)
I even call it out in the
physical world. I’m like, they’re using color alone as an indicator. That color contrast is off. Yeah.
Justin Stockton (21:20)
Yeah, yeah. children’s books? That’s that’s I know
books are not necessarily under Wic Hag, but
Mark Miller (21:26)
That’s like the accessibility
professional curse is that those things just jump out at you all the time. Eventually
Justin Stockton (21:29)
Yeah. Yeah.
Mark Miller (21:32)
you have to mute yourself like nobody else cares. Stop announcing it to strangers.
Sam Donnelly (21:34)
And I sh I
should point out that yeah we have these
And this is another thing with cognitive load. You know, I’ll sometimes forget the details of
Justin Stockton (21:44)
Uh-huh.
Sam Donnelly (21:44)
criterion. And so we have here these plain language s summaries for each criterion. And it’s really handy for just like getting a quick be like, okay, yeah, I know
Mark Miller (21:57)
Reminder.
Sam Donnelly (21:57)
I know what this is, I know what I’m doing. And if this isn’t enough information for you, you can click here and it’ll bring you to the
W three C guidance, the official official guidance, and you can get into the nitty-gritty of it if you’d like. And so everything’s all right there. But let’s say you’re an expert auditor, you’ve been doing this for a while, and I honestly collapse this all
a lot of times. So if you don’t don’t want all that information taking up space on your screen, you can just click view criterion summary and it’s gone. And that stays so so if you go to another criterion, it’s it will stay collapsed.
So but yeah, that was a big part of that that’s sort of like
Mark Miller (22:43)
Mm.
Sam Donnelly (22:43)
the guided aspect in a lot of ways of our testing because it it it provide this provides you with like really good information. Grant Grant wrote the testing tips. He’s not the test he wrote all of these summaries and you know, he’s got twenty three years in the in the field of accessibility. and so he created these really great plain language
you know, descriptions of the WCAG success criteria.
Mark Miller (23:14)
Yeah, and I love the choices. You know, do you need this? If not, let’s not have it clutter your screen or your brain. You can you can close it right up.
Sam Donnelly (23:24)
Exactly. Exactly. any other questions or should I move on to show show some other things?
Mark Miller (23:32)
I’m
good.
Justin Stockton (23:32)
yeah, let’s what ha so right now this is this one is untest it’s in a state of untested. you’ve got test results for pass, fail, and not applicable. How are those obviously pass is pass. How how do you draw what do you how do you apply fail and not applicable?
Sam Donnelly (23:53)
in n in what way could you re just rephrase the last bit?
Justin Stockton (23:58)
Yeah, is there so if if you fail it, are you required to add a new issue? Do you are there if you mark it as not applicable, can you add an issue? I d just kind of curious like how it like what’s the next step at if we’re gonna fail one three three, what happens next?
Sam Donnelly (24:20)
Yeah, so basically when you click fail, it it automatically opens up the issue form and you can go ahead and write your issue let’s see depends on censory care characteristics.
Alright, so so yeah, it’ll it’ll automatically open the fail or the the issue form. Although it’s not I mean, you can technically mark it as fail and not fill out all of this stuff. but we kind of try to nudge people to to attach an actual description when there’s a failure, and that’s why we have it automatically open up this this field here. But this field is yeah, where where you
log all of your issues and add screenshots and screen videos and all of that stuff. And when you go let’s say you click NA, so it just actually autosaves the description and it a across whatever if you have like a drafted issue description that that’s how it works. But yeah so you can add an issue to NA if you’d like to. Obviously that’s not really a
gonna be a common use case. but yeah, you can do that. but not typical in terms of how people use the web app.
Yeah. but yeah, so I’ll just go ahead and
Mark Miller (26:05)
you if you
go back to fail real quick, Sam, I noticed a little thing. So if you go down to describe how to remediate this issue, there’s that get r get recommendations which you have in beta form. How does that work? So so
Sam Donnelly (26:21)
So huh
Mark Miller (26:22)
I’m assuming this means makes it so somebody doesn’t have to start from scratch and describe something.
Sam Donnelly (26:27)
Yeah, the the idea is to to basically have it’s it’s really this is really meant to be used for like more complex issues, things that that, you know, require maybe some development knowledge that you don’t have.
But basically what happens is once you do that, it’ll direct you to the page that you’re actually testing. And then you you cli you’ll click around the page, you’ll find the exact element. You click on the exact element that has the issue, and you can select the context around it, and then it takes the code and
gives you plain text recommendations on how to
Mark Miller (27:15)
Yeah.
Sam Donnelly (27:15)
remediate and
Justin Stockton (27:17)
No.
Sam Donnelly (27:17)
yeah
Mark Miller (27:18)
of AI and I also really love the the way you get to it. You know, the fact that it pulls you into the page and then you highlight the element, it inspects the code and or it it you know takes in the code and everything and uses that for the recommendation. It seems like a pretty I can’t imagine a c sort of a a quicker, more logical way to step into that.
Sam Donnelly (27:42)
Yeah, it’s really nifty and handy. and when you’re handing it off to developers they’ll they’ll appreciate
Mark Miller (27:47)
Mm-hmm.
Sam Donnelly (27:48)
it ’cause a lot of developers don’t really know accessibility. So when I’m I’m dealing with certain clients, you know, I’ll I’ll be working with a developer and it’ll be really clear that like this is the first time they’ve considered accessibility ever. And and so
Mark Miller (28:02)
Hundred percent. Yeah, we see that all the time.
Sam Donnelly (28:05)
yeah, and so they don’t know, you know, how to like handle ARIA
or they don’t know how to handle, you know, you know, just a lot of things are just they’re huge gaps.
Mark Miller (28:16)
Yeah. It’s
a big part of what Justin does for us is actually embeds in organizations where they just don’t have that level of expertise to you can give a great report with great information like we’re looking at here, but that doesn’t mean that they have the expertise,
Justin Stockton (28:30)
Know what I mean.
Mark Miller (28:31)
comfort level, you know, anything to prioritize and actually fix issues. So I think that anything that you can do, like you’ve just demonstrated here, that helps that process just gives people one step closer.
It’s a really a really cool
feature.
Sam Donnelly (28:47)
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly. It’s just sort of a it seemed like a logical next step here
Mark Miller (28:52)
Mm-hmm.
Sam Donnelly (28:53)
for for the product to to ha have that that that sort of ability. but but yeah, so it’s pretty nifty. another thing we’ve added recently is you d you can now test by user journeys.
Mark Miller (29:11)
Mm-hmm.
Sam Donnelly (29:11)
so basically the way you test on the site is and you can see it here.
You can test by page, component, or user journey.
Mark Miller (29:20)
nice.
Sam Donnelly (29:21)
and so that basically covers every everything,
Mark Miller (29:24)
Mm-hmm.
Sam Donnelly (29:24)
for the most part. And so I’ll show you what a user journey looks like. So it just has these different steps. So we’ll say, let’s say it’s we’re creating a password reset journey. And this is these are different steps. And then once you click in, it’s just like when you’re testing a page, but
it has this sort of like you can nav navigate b by step if you like,
Mark Miller (29:50)
yeah.
Sam Donnelly (29:51)
here. And then, you know, it’s just like testing anything else on and this is one where you’re gonna have like a lot of NA’s. so we’ll go ahead and use batch tool.
Mark Miller (29:59)
So total
total lay person question here, but how did it know that journey? Did you up did you import that journey or
Sam Donnelly (30:09)
I created that journey and the way that works is let’s see if I get here I can get here
Mark Miller (30:16)
I’m sure you
just looked at it and figured that out, Justin, but I’m not a s what was your question? I ask a smart question.
Justin Stockton (30:19)
No, no, I was that was my next question too was is it a is it a
is it a is it driven by existing pages and components or are user journeys completely separate?
Sam Donnelly (30:30)
It’s kind of it’s kind of both. So so we go ahead and add a journey. I don’t know, we’ll think of we’ll just
Mark Miller (30:43)
Mark’s question.
The journey can be called Mark’s question.
Sam Donnelly (30:46)
I’ll just call it password reset too. and then so here is where you basically you add each step. So we’ll say select forgot password.
Sign in page. So that’s gonna be your first step. And with each step, you can attach a URL or you can give a description on like how to get there. You know, if you’re describing some
Mark Miller (31:19)
Mm-hmm.
Sam Donnelly (31:19)
s very specific component, you can give directions on how to f actually find that. and another thing you can do is you can add an existing page as one of the steps. so we can say
I don’t know. We’ll just say contact is part of it. and shows you that it’s a page. so yeah, you can embed pages into this. and the page is already tested. You’ll notice here you have test and you can unclick that and that’ll just mean that when you go in to test the user journey, that bit won’t be part of it. Like let’s say one of the steps that you enter is something that’s very insignificant. It doesn’t need to be tested.
Or not insignificant, but just not prone to issues. So you can do that. But yeah, you just add step by step. just I’m just gonna write in step two so you don’t have to watch me type. or step three actually.
Justin Stockton (32:21)
can s I can see that test also being really helpful for those cases where you’re maybe you’re integrating some third party platform like single sign on or something like that. Like these
Mark Miller (32:30)
Mm-hmm.
Justin Stockton (32:31)
are things that are out of our control and we’re working with our vendor on. We already know about that stuff. Click you know, don’t don’t worry about it as part of the test.
Sam Donnelly (32:41)
Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And b and you can also like reorder things if you’d like, with these arrow buttons. and then we’ll go ahead and add the journey. And here it’ll sh it’ll shows three failing because the page that I added had failures. but it’s nice ’cause it also gives you the progress here. yeah, then we’re back to back to this. So and if you just select
this button here it’ll start
Mark Miller (33:14)
Continue testing.
Sam Donnelly (33:15)
it’ll s yeah it’ll create your jour or have you on your jour journey based on where you left off. So yeah, so that’s a nifty feature that we just added. and yeah, I’ve been really liking it ’cause it makes it so it’s everything’s sort of uniform rather than before I sort of patch pages together and like
you know, have a much less clear user journey path.
Mark Miller (33:44)
Right.
Justin Stockton (33:45)
Makes
it easier to tell a story in a report, particularly.
Sam Donnelly (33:49)
Yeah. Definitely. Definitely does. yeah.
Mark Miller (33:56)
So what
other major highlights do you have?
Sam Donnelly (34:00)
so one thing this is really just cosmetic but we added a couple weeks ago, we added dark mode. so
Mark Miller (34:09)
And I noticed that. Yeah.
Sam Donnelly (34:10)
this is what it used to always look like. and now you can choose dark mode. Really the best way to get there is through your user profile drop down.
you can you can select everything that way. But it also shows up here on the testing page for the sake of you know, some sometimes people might not find it. I’ve tried to make it pretty clear, but but yeah, so yeah, you got this if you just don’t like looking at
Mark Miller (34:39)
Well this
Sam Donnelly (34:39)
a white screen for hours, which I
Mark Miller (34:42)
This is a
possible use case for somebody flipping it around. Midstream too, I would imagine. I’m I’m weird. I for some reason I keep things in light mode and I notice everybody and I notice this about you too, Justin, that a lot of people really love dark mode.
Sam Donnelly (34:58)
Yeah, we had a lot of requests for dark mode.
Mark Miller (35:01)
Mm.
Sam Donnelly (35:02)
It was a ton of requests for dark mode. And and
Mark Miller (35:05)
Well, you delivered.
Sam Donnelly (35:08)
yeah, yeah, I was surprised how how it it wasn’t really all that difficult. So my develop yeah it was sort of a hybrid system with my developers is a guy named Shadab Saife, really incredible guy.
I I don’t think I’ve seen an accessibility specialist who’s more driven and passionate
Mark Miller (35:29)
Mm.
Sam Donnelly (35:30)
than than this guy. Shadab’s just the best. So we’ve got him and he sort of manages the the trickier tasks, the more the more
Mark Miller (35:38)
Yeah.
Sam Donnelly (35:39)
involved tasks. And then I I use clawed code to to manage sort of like the smaller things on the site. and dark mode is one of the things that I I I use clawed code for.
and yeah, it was just only took me a couple of hours and and I and I got it in there. But I yeah, I find it just much nicer to look at this personally. There’s kind of an even split with our users right now. I think you know, having
Mark Miller (36:05)
Mm-hmm.
Sam Donnelly (36:06)
having the option between the two really is like the best. But but yeah, one thing to note is like my the the home page and all
Mark Miller (36:15)
You know.
Sam Donnelly (36:15)
the marketing stuff stays in stays in light mode. yeah, I should show you guys.
Mark Miller (36:19)
Yeah. You know what’s interesting
about having that light light dark mode toggle right on a page like that? Is can you imagine working in an environment where you have multiple testers, you have senior and junior testers, and maybe you’ve got a junior tester sitting there in light mode, ’cause that’s what they like, but their senior person that comes over to help out is like, you know, has the reaction you did just and right there they could flick it to dark mode and then just flick it back. It’s actually really it’s it’s an interesting sort of
above and beyond thing that it’d be interesting. It would be interesting to see how pe what the use cases are and with it available, how people start to use it.
Justin Stockton (36:57)
Yeah, I think I saw an article yesterday in Ricky Onsman’s list of reading like weekly reading list
Mark Miller (37:03)
Mm-hmm.
Justin Stockton (37:03)
about the case for that dark mode light mode switch to be trinary. So it’s on my to do reading list. But I think what they’re talking about is that option of having it be light mode, dark mode or system mode. so that way you have one place that you can go ’cause I do that a lot is I’ll go up in my Mac and change the system.
Mark Miller (37:23)
So it reflects your your earlier choice on the whole
system.
Justin Stockton (37:27)
Yeah. ‘Cause my big thing is like when you’re talking about dark mode, light mode switching, like I’ll work in my basement and then I’ll go sit out on my front porch in the afternoon and I need light mode for that. I can’t there’s too much contrast. So being able to have one button switch and everything.
Mark Miller (37:40)
Well, I just also think that we th we think about a
we also think about single users and that’s not the real world, you know. It’s like the old Saturday night lights live skit where the IT guy, you know, they ask the IT guy a question. Move you right and he’s sitting down and using somebody else’s computer. The assumption that we’re the only one that’s ever gonna use this computer and and and be happy with the choices that are made is is not necessarily real, particularly as you know
You got return to work stuff going on and all that. So, anyways, a little bit of a tangent. Sorry, Sam. You’re probably
Justin Stockton (38:10)
Yeah. Sorry.
Mark Miller (38:12)
like, you’re probably like, I just added light mode and dark mode, guys. It’s not that big of a deal. But it, but it, but it is, and I think one, it illustrates the fact that you’re listening to your users. And second, that’s just an accessibility. It seems simple. You know, if you’re watching this, it seems simple from the standpoint of an accessibility feature or trivial.
maybe to some people, but it really is in in and it really is I think important. And then also that idea that sometimes just going above and beyond really does move an experience into a different place. But anyways, we’ll let you continue with with the
Sam Donnelly (38:48)
Yeah.
Mark Miller (38:49)
with with auditing stuff.
Sam Donnelly (38:50)
Yes, so that I yeah, I think it’s important too. I I can’t believe how much of a difference it made for me ’cause I spent this hours and hours in Labrador. I use Labrador Labrador myself for all of my auditing. th and you know, so it makes it so I I can find all of the issues when we have them for the most part and basically I’m dog fooding it. but I yeah, I use it
every day. So I I really wanted to get it into dark mode and yeah, it made it made a bigger difference than I I kind of thought it would. and we kind of modeled it. We d you know, it’s a lighter dark mode. It’s kinda modeled off of like GitHub and how they have things set up. but yeah, so you’ve got that and something that I should also highlight here is our help center. so like, you know, there are a lot of things in here that
are maybe not that easy to f figure out how to do and our users our users definitely always have a lot of questions and so we created this help center and this is basically a comprehensive user guide for for everything you can think of and you can search in here let’s say I I don’t understand the ver versioning ver we have a versioning
Yeah, you can you can
Justin Stockton (40:19)
Yeah, I saw
that. I wanted to ask about that.
Mark Miller (40:23)
I think we talked
Sam Donnelly (40:22)
Yeah, yeah, I can
Mark Miller (40:23)
about that early on too, Sam. I th w in our early days of talking about Labrador, that’s one of the things I think I mentioned, because I’ve had clients in the past that are like versioning is the most important thing to us. So that might be before we w wrap up here, because I we can’t go over everything, right? but I think versioning might be a good one to talk about.
Sam Donnelly (40:44)
Okay, yeah, if I can fit that in and I can show you guys the Jira integration.
Mark Miller (40:48)
Perfect.
Sam Donnelly (40:50)
so so basically with versioning you’ve got a couple of different ways to do it. So you can you can start a new audit and keep the same pages. Let’s say you’re just doing like quarterly auditing. you can start a new blank audit but just use the same
title and everything for the for it. Or you can create a retest version. so let’s say you know you hand it off to the project off to a developer and they come back and they say, all right, everything’s fixed. And so you want to go into your retest
this is this is good because it preserves all of your data and g shows all the different steps you’ve had. and so we’ll go in to view all issues. this are that’s a really nifty nifty w way of navigating. And you see you’ve got all of your issues here and you got links and you can click on an issue and it’ll give you the description. And so l let’s say let’s say that this this developer did a great job and so
we you know we’re done with this. So you would mark everything as closed. And so when you mark something as closed, it will it will basically leave that issue out of the report.
see we have ne we have less issues now. And when you export let’s say in this case there were actually a couple of issues remaining. So you close everything but two issues and then and then you can go ahead and export and the closed issues will not show up. and and so yeah, so these are just like a couple different ways.
Mark Miller (42:41)
So so as the
auditor you’re like we went through you know, great job, great work developer, you know, glad you’re done. You we went through everything and you did a pretty good job of cleaning it up, but we found some things that weren’t quite perfect. Now here’s a report on just those things you have remaining. Yeah,
Sam Donnelly (43:01)
Exactly. Yeah.
Mark Miller (43:02)
that’s great. That’s great.
Sam Donnelly (43:04)
And you’ll also see how status is important.
Mark Miller (43:08)
And i and that is versus you s you had a couple different ways and this was the retest way and the other one was kind of like you said blank, right? To me that’s a full regression test. You’re gonna you’re you’re gonna ignore the issues that were found before and you’re gonna say, I’m gonna pretend in this second version of this audit I have not seen anything and I’m starting from the beginning and re-auditing
Sam Donnelly (43:29)
Yeah, this is this is
Mark Miller (43:31)
fully, just to give just to give people
If if I’m if I’m right about what I said, that to give people
Sam Donnelly (43:36)
Yeah.
Mark Miller (43:36)
an idea of why those different designations are important.
Sam Donnelly (43:41)
Yeah, here’s what here’s w what it looks like if you select if you select start a new audit and keep pages and so yeah, you just have it blank tell yeah, you’re just going you know
Mark Miller (43:48)
Mm-hmm. Yep. Same scope, same anything
else, but I’m gonna start from scratch. Like I haven’t seen it. Brilliant. I
Sam Donnelly (43:56)
Exactly.
Mark Miller (43:57)
love it. I like the fact that you have that. It’s in a so easy to set it up
Sam Donnelly (44:01)
Yeah.
Mark Miller (44:02)
for which one you want to do.
Sam Donnelly (44:03)
Yeah, I was really surprised ’cause versioning’s not really an easy thing from a development standpoint.
Mark Miller (44:08)
Mm-hmm.
Sam Donnelly (44:10)
and so
Justin Stockton (44:12)
This is what
this is we we you and I chatted a little bit about this at Seesawn.
Sam Donnelly (44:16)
Y yeah, yeah.
I’ve been we’ve been it was something that was been requested a lot, from us. so yeah, but Shadab our developer, he he he did it and did it really incredibly well. it was
Mark Miller (44:32)
No problem.
Sam Donnelly (44:34)
yeah, it was it was great.
Mark Miller (44:36)
As a good developer,
when that’s their attitude, it’s like, yeah, no, I can do it. Everybody says it’s difficult, but I can do it. Yeah.
Sam Donnelly (44:40)
that’s yeah, that’s Shadab. Shadab works
like eighteen hour days. That guy is he’s he’s unstoppable. you know, I have so so many good things to say about that guy. but yes, so I’ll show you guys also the Jira integration, which is another newer
feature of ours. So
Mark Miller (45:01)
Yeah. And I’m sure one that a lot
of people have asked you about ’cause I know that we used to get that question all the time.
Sam Donnelly (45:10)
Yeah, we’ve had we’ve had people requesting this for I mean since we launched pretty much. people like, yeah, can you bring us in Jira? so we and we’re gonna open it up to I’ll show this for your for your users. right, let’s go to so we have on the homepage way for you to
request different integrations.
Mark Miller (45:41)
nice.
Sam Donnelly (45:43)
so we’re thinking of adding like GitHub issues maybe, or
Mark Miller (45:46)
Yeah.
Sam Donnelly (45:48)
I you know linear is becoming a big thing. So maybe linear. And so any of you watching, if you’ve got a request here for an integration, go ahead and and fill that out.
Mark Miller (46:01)
That’s great.
Sam Donnelly (46:02)
but anyways so Jira integration basically you just map everything you have to map all the different
elements and this is this is sort of what it looks like and you’ve got these these tokens here to create the template. and and then so what it looks what it ends up looking like is this in Jira. these are the the
And so everything automatically goes into Jira. you don’t
Mark Miller (46:34)
Mm-hmm.
Sam Donnelly (46:35)
have to push things out. There is like let’s say like mid-audit you decide you wanna you put you want Jira involved. So when you do do that, when you set it up, it’ll it’ll actually ask you, do you wanna sync these thirteen issues that that aren’t in Jira? And then you say yeah, sync, and then you just keep going and you’ll have a comprehensive audit and you’ll see here it
the priority comes through. So we can filter by you know high priority, low priority
Mark Miller (47:04)
yeah.
Sam Donnelly (47:05)
or not filter, but sort rather. And and this is what an issue an issue looks like once once it’s in Jira. if you want to look at the details of the issue. and you just got the issue description, you got a link for the page that you’re on.
So they can reference it, whoever, you know, whoever’s handling it, likely a developer, and you can also view your attachments. those come through to JIRA as well. And then, you know, you can do things like let me see, I can’t see it in this view. So here you can say, you know, done and
That will come through to this, let’s see missions.
Give me one second. wrong version.
go to admissions. We got a failure. I think it was this one. Okay, yeah. So you’ll see that the status here has been changed to fix for retesting. So
Mark Miller (48:24)
Updated. Nice. Nice.
Sam Donnelly (48:27)
so then you know, okay, time for me to to you know do the QA on on the audit
And yeah, so that’s so it’s a it’s a two way sync with the with the
Mark Miller (48:40)
Got it.
Sam Donnelly (48:41)
with the Jira develop or Jira integration. And yeah, I mean that’s that’s how it works. I think we covered a lot of
Mark Miller (48:49)
Mm-hmm.
Sam Donnelly (48:50)
what the tool has and if you if you have any remaining questions I’d be happy to happy to answer.
Mark Miller (48:57)
Anything
Glaring or you know burning questions that you have, Justin?
Justin Stockton (49:07)
no, it’s it’s a
Mark Miller (49:07)
Or is it pretty much changed?
Justin Stockton (49:08)
yeah, it’s it’s it’s interesting. you know, one question that I had kind of is like earlier on we were talking about like the batch tool and how it was you know, how nice it was to be able to kind of look at it the success criteria’s by feature. Like I wanna mark all the f everything related to forms as not applicable. I wanna mark anything related to this video as not applicable.
Have you have you thought about doing the same thing for like this view where you’re actually working with things or are you do you wanna really stick with it being like success criteria driven?
The the audit itself being success criteria driven.
Sam Donnelly (49:52)
Yeah, the the audit itself is definitely me meant to be success criteria driven. you know, we’re we’re we’re going pretty much all in on WCAG
Justin Stockton (50:05)
Mm-hmm.
Sam Donnelly (50:06)
here. that’s what it’s about. I mean you can log best practices and stuff if you want.
you can you can have severity of advisory and that sort of thing. but yeah, this is really supposed to be for those
Mark Miller (50:23)
Okay, got it.
Sam Donnelly (50:24)
purposes. but I’m not sure if that answered your question or not.
Justin Stockton (50:29)
Yeah, I know it did. but it led me to another one which is what about other standards like the EN standard or Section five eight? Is is their ability when you’re c maybe setting up a project to choose other standards or to maybe us maybe someone just wants like a high level WCAG two dot one single A audit where you’re only focusing on the single A criterion. Is there a
Some configurability there.
Sam Donnelly (51:01)
Interesting. yeah, so we that is on the to to do list is to create
Mark Miller (51:08)
Roadmap.
Sam Donnelly (51:10)
you know do section five eight and EN I can’t ever remember the numbers.
Mark Miller (51:14)
three one five four nine.
Sam Donnelly (51:16)
It’s very impressive. three one five four nine. Three one five four nine.
Mark Miller (51:17)
301549.
It’s just from saying it over and over and over and over again.
Justin Stockton (51:23)
Over and over.
Mark Miller (51:24)
And by the way, three in f EN 301549 just had an update and it now maps to Wikig two point two at the double A level in case in case anybody’s taking notes.
Sam Donnelly (51:33)
Yeah. I
knew that was I knew that that was on the way. I that’s awesome.
Mark Miller (51:39)
Mm-hmm. It just happened literally a few days ago. Yep.
Sam Donnelly (51:45)
yeah, but so we do intend to have those standard a way to test for those standards at some point. in terms of like the level of the testing methodology, you can select two point one double A. we don’t
We don’t currently have a two point one A testing or anything like that, but if you think that is something that a lot of people would w want, I mean it’d be very easy for us to implement.
Mark Miller (52:14)
Well I think, you know,
let’s w we we’ll wrap up here in a second, but we can we can make a feature suggestion to you right now. Live. Live. I think that for me and you tell me, Justin, I don’t know that it’s necessarily that people want single A, but I do think that there is a a smoke test, right? That there is a we don’t wanna go in and find out all the failures to WCEG, but we do want somebody to go in very quickly at a low budget and
And give us an idea particularly of like role you know, super important severe issues and stuff like that. So it might be interesting, and and I don’t have any more for you than that, Sam, but it might be interesting to contemplate how you would choose sort of I’d call it a smoke test.
that would i and and come up with some sort of a logic to to scale down that wicked success criteria and lots of times those lead to the bigger audits but we’ve definitely I’ve seen in my career just that that need to go like just dip your toe in this right now we don’t need to do a full audit. We’re not gonna go and fix all the issues and you know and there’s a we can get into the reasons but there’s a bunch of different reasons for it. So that might be something to think about Sam. I mean I think single A would be good just because it is desi
dab added up that way and it sort of makes some logical sense that somebody might want single A. But I think the one I actually see more is that smoke test.
Sam Donnelly (53:39)
Yeah, I’ll think about like a smoke test sort of sort of methodology. that sounds you know, like s something that would definitely be useful and we’re
Mark Miller (53:51)
Mm-hmm.
Sam Donnelly (53:52)
we’re very much about like, all right, like accessibility is difficult. let’s figure out how we can make it a little bit easier for you. And that’s why like for Yeah.
Mark Miller (54:00)
Yeah. So the smoke test might be one approach.
Sam Donnelly (54:04)
And for our services branch, so we do we do auditing and remediation and consulting under is just Labrador Services, Labrador Accessibility dot com is our our page for that. And one of the things we do is we have a four hundred ninety-five dollar home page audit. So if somebody just wants to get in and have only their home page audited.
they can they can do that. and I think that’s a really useful thing for for a lot of businesses ’cause sometimes people w won’t be ready to like put thousands of dollars into an audit. or you know so we’ve just been trying to think of like ways to make auditing more accessible to people.
‘Cause there is an accessibility issue with inaccessibility. You know, it’s it’s expensive. Nobody publishes their prices and then it ends up being very expensive. and it’s just it’s har it’s just hard for the ’cause I I I deal with a lot of small businesses. I do audits for a lot of small b
businesses with the the the agency that I currently am the director of accessibility at, called E9 Digital. I deal with a lot of small businesses. And it is tough for them to do the accessibility. I mean they they really like to do it. It’s it it and it ends up being really costly, but they you know, we have to figure out ways to make it make it easier for them.
so yeah, we’re all about like the accessibility of accessibility. And and that’s what Labrador this tool is too. It’s making accessibility more accessible. So you know, c somebody with neurological difficulties like me can, you know, audit a page and or audit a product and and you know, do it in an organized way and feel confident about how they did it. And yeah, that’s what it that’s
Mark Miller (55:59)
That’s fantastic.
Sam Donnelly (56:00)
what it’s all about.
Mark Miller (56:01)
Well, what I would say that we l again, I just love being on this journey with you, Sam, and seeing this product evolve. And it’s clear you’re listening to your users, it’s clear you’re continuing to evolve it. and I think that if anybody has I’ll say this if any if anybody has an idea of what a smoke test should look like, because I think people have different ideas, shoot it over to us. Like we’ll pass it on,
You can send it to info at inclusionimpact.com. we’ll pass it on to Sam. So we’ll crowdsource some some some ideas for you, Sam. but and then you know, you guys have invite people in to give suggestions really nicely on your website. So please go to labrador.com.
let them know what you want for test with labrador.com.
Sam Donnelly (56:44)
Test with test with lab test with Labrador Doc Dun.
Mark Miller (56:47)
Thank you. And and let them know, particularly with the integrations, what you want.
But I love the fact that you’re listening to your users. You guys had a concept, but you also have embraced the concept that it’s really the people out there using the product, you being one of them, who you need to listen to, and it sounds like that’s happening as well. So thanks. Thanks for
Justin Stockton (57:08)
Yeah.
Mark Miller (57:08)
walking us through this. I hope everybody enjoyed it. Go ahead, Justin. What you wanna what do you wanna say?
Justin Stockton (57:11)
Yeah, I also want to
say the University of Montauk site is really cool. just wanna
Mark Miller (57:15)
the good point.
Justin Stockton (57:16)
highlight that tool because it’s I don’t it’s it’s a site that they’ve set that Sam and them have set up that has a number of accessibility issues on it. So you can go in and like test and see like like see if you can find all this stuff.
Mark Miller (57:31)
Meant for demonstration.
Justin Stockton (57:32)
But what’s cool about it is that they’re not hidden. At the top of the page, there’s actually a way to find out what all the accessibility issues are.
So you’ve kind of got the
Mark Miller (57:41)
yeah.
Justin Stockton (57:41)
cheat sheet like baked into the page, which is really great.
Mark Miller (57:45)
So it’s like where’s Waldo with the answers in the back of the book so you can find Waldo. Where’s w where’s the inaccessible Waldo?
Justin Stockton (57:48)
Yeah, yeah.
Sam Donnelly (57:49)
Ye yeah. I was like I had seen so many like w
I was using different example sites that that were built by other people because a lot of people have built, you know, websites with intentional accessibility issues. But I never could find like an answer key or anything like that
Mark Miller (58:05)
Mm-hmm.
Sam Donnelly (58:05)
indicated
Justin Stockton (58:05)
huh.
Sam Donnelly (58:06)
all right w where the issues are. And so yeah, I just I just built this site and
Yeah, it’s definitely really nifty for you know, you can test accessibility tools, you can test to tools. Maybe maybe you’re thinking about buying something, you you wanna see how how well it does. you know, we
Mark Miller (58:22)
And you just leave that out
there available to everyone, right? So Yeah.
Sam Donnelly (58:25)
Yeah, yeah. It’s out
and we actually get a good amount of traffic, on this site. ’cause I’ve I’ve tried to sh Yeah, I wonder if anybody’s landed there.
Mark Miller (58:31)
But
Justin Stockton (58:32)
Probably from people in Montauk that want to go to school there.
Mark Miller (58:37)
How do I register? The site’s not
very accessible.
Sam Donnelly (58:40)
Yeah. Yeah, I
wonder if anybody’s landed on the site somehow and and been like, I I wanna this looks like a good universe. I don’t I don’t know.
Justin Stockton (58:49)
Mm.
Sam Donnelly (58:50)
I I’m guessing though, probably not. But but yeah, no, we get we get a lot of people who are using it for accessibility stuff. because it is nifty to have actually have those have that answer key there. and here I’ll actually I’ll just go ahead and show it real quick. so people can see what it looks like. So here’s here’s the answer key rate key.
it
Mark Miller (59:11)
That’s great.
Sam Donnelly (59:12)
tells you all of the criteria that are covered. You’ve got 14 guidelines that that were impacted. And then just page page by page you get all of the issues and the impact, the user impact is included here. and yeah, and so and then you know if you sign up for Labrador, you you’ll get an audit that is nearly finished of University of Montauk, and you can complete it if you want.
but but yeah, yeah, I’m glad you I’m glad you like that. I I find I find it really useful and use it all the time.
it it was inspired by Fake University, which
Mark Miller (59:51)
Mm-hmm.
Sam Donnelly (59:52)
I believe that was Silk Tide who built I think Silk Silktide built that, something like that. but shouts out to Silktide, by the way. Great product. those guys I feel I feel like they don’t get enough attention. they they have some really incredible products. Also Stark. Stark is another one that I think doesn’t really get
enough shine. So shouts out to Stark, another one that I use. But but yeah.
Mark Miller (1:00:22)
Well thanks Sam. We really do appreciate this and great overview, great discussion along the way. I hope everybody watching the video enjoys both of those things. And I know you’ll be doing great things with Labrador in the future, so we’ll we’ll gather together again at the right time and and and see how this evolves. So
Sam Donnelly (1:00:43)
Yeah. Thanks.
Mark Miller (1:00:45)
and we’ll make sure we have all of the links and stuff to Labrador Labrador everything that we talked about will be in the show notes.
so if you didn’t take notes, they’re there for you. and we appreciate you listening. Thanks everyone.
Sam Donnelly (1:00:59)
Yeah, thank thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it, you guys.
Mark SMiller is a digital accessibility consultant who helps organizations build accessible, inclusive digital experiences. He speaks regularly at industry conferences,, CSUN, CVENt and apperes on many webinars and podace. , He trains teams on practical, sustainable accessibility workflows.
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